i18n: context missing

Hi,

Today I had a look at our french translation, I think it looks good
(btw thanks Louis and Geoff for crediting me), but clearly, the
limiting factor of the quality of translations is the lack of context.
The worst examples I could see were in the settings dialog: None,
Some, Mid, Lots… are intranslatable for lack of context. It is only
a bad workaround to look at the corresponding source file: a string
without context may at a later date get used in a different context!
Moreover, the string “None” is already used in many contexts.

So this is a suggestion to the c++ coders side: make heavy use of the
tr() variants specifying context!

Also notice the following: even when the word seems completely
unambiguous on its own, in some foreign languages it may still have
different spellings depending on context! For example, “Small” is
unambiguously translated as “petit” in french but if it refers to a
feminine noun then it should be “petite”, if it is plural then it’s
"petits", etc… This kind of error is not too bad, it just gives
Avogadro a charming english accent :wink: an example of that is again in
the settings dialog where Quality–>Medium becomes Qualité–>Moyen but
it should be Moyenne because Qualité is feminine.

Cheers,
Benoit

Hi.

I agree entirely with Benoît’s remarks. Even though the french
translation looks complete, it needs some polishing and, in some
respects, corrections may be required in some very specialized
contexts like “morphing” for instance. Similarly, I intended to
replace the actual translation of “Input deck” (Fichier d’entrée)
by “Jeu(x) de données” which would seem more appropriate
in my mind (by reference to old days punched cards decks).

I think I already mentioned that it would be nice to have
feedback and suggestions fromf someone else. It may even
be a good idea to sollicit users in this respect.

Cheers,

Louis

Le 18 mai 09 à 22:52, Benoit Jacob a écrit :

Hi,

Today I had a look at our french translation, I think it looks good
(btw thanks Louis and Geoff for crediting me), but clearly, the
limiting factor of the quality of translations is the lack of context.
The worst examples I could see were in the settings dialog: None,
Some, Mid, Lots… are intranslatable for lack of context. It is only
a bad workaround to look at the corresponding source file: a string
without context may at a later date get used in a different context!
Moreover, the string “None” is already used in many contexts.

So this is a suggestion to the c++ coders side: make heavy use of the
tr() variants specifying context!

Also notice the following: even when the word seems completely
unambiguous on its own, in some foreign languages it may still have
different spellings depending on context! For example, “Small” is
unambiguously translated as “petit” in french but if it refers to a
feminine noun then it should be “petite”, if it is plural then it’s
"petits", etc… This kind of error is not too bad, it just gives
Avogadro a charming english accent :wink: an example of that is again in
the settings dialog where Quality–>Medium becomes Qualité–>Moyen but
it should be Moyenne because Qualité is feminine.

Cheers,
Benoit


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Today I had a look at our french translation, I think it looks good
(btw thanks Louis and Geoff for crediting me), but clearly, the
limiting factor of the quality of translations is the lack of context.

If you (and others) can help flag some of the strings needing context,
it’s an easy fix. Also, I noticed during the UI revision that we
sometimes do bad things like:

tool->name() + ’ ’ + tr(“Settings”);

This absolutely has to stop. I’m going to add an additional string to
the Tool plugin template for the title of the settings window. Not all
languages use spaces as word separators, and certainly word order may
change (e.g., French might be “Arrangements d’outil” or something).

So this is a suggestion to the c++ coders side: make heavy use of the
tr() variants specifying context!

I think we have to be a bit careful of “heavy” use, since this could
also make translations very intimidating. Right now, we have 1300+
strings for a new language. And many of these are in Designer
templates – so it’s not just C++ coders who can fix it. I do think we
have to be a bit careful that we don’t suddenly have 4000 strings and
no one will want to even start translating. (That’s my fear, anyway.)

The last piece for the translation will be to split into libavo + avo
(the app) translation files. After all, we want to encourage others to
use libavogadro outside our project.

Cheers,
-Geoff

On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Louis Ricard
louis.ricard@polytechnique.edu wrote:

Hi.

I agree entirely with Benoît’s remarks. Even though the french
translation looks complete, it needs some polishing and, in some
respects, corrections may be required in some very specialized
contexts like “morphing” for instance. Similarly, I intended to
replace the actual translation of “Input deck” (Fichier d’entrée)
by “Jeu(x) de données” which would seem more appropriate
in my mind (by reference to old days punched cards decks).

Am I the only one that was totally confused by “Input deck”? I’ve been
a Chemistry student for 10+ years now and Avogadro is the first time
I’d ever seen that phrase. Perhaps it’s just that I’m a gnome user but
I still find some Avo UI to be less than intuitive. And yes, I’ll save
Marcus the trouble and tell my self “patches welcome” :wink:

-Jordan

Jordan Mantha wrote:

On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Louis Ricard
louis.ricard@polytechnique.edu wrote:

Hi.

I agree entirely with Benoît’s remarks. Even though the french
translation looks complete, it needs some polishing and, in some
respects, corrections may be required in some very specialized
contexts like “morphing” for instance. Similarly, I intended to
replace the actual translation of “Input deck” (Fichier d’entrée)
by “Jeu(x) de données” which would seem more appropriate
in my mind (by reference to old days punched cards decks).

Am I the only one that was totally confused by “Input deck”? I’ve been
a Chemistry student for 10+ years now and Avogadro is the first time
I’d ever seen that phrase. Perhaps it’s just that I’m a gnome user but
I still find some Avo UI to be less than intuitive. And yes, I’ll save
Marcus the trouble and tell my self “patches welcome” :wink:

I am in total agreement (parts of the UI could be better and patches are
welcome). We have already renamed some parts of the user interface to
make them more intuitive. I think we inherited the input deck from
GAMESS, and I remember at least one instance where Geoff and I were
saying that should be fixed. Just like engines became display types.

Input deck comes from the days where it really was a deck of punch cards

  • it has history but may not be the best choice of name for a modern
    user interface :wink:

On May 19, 2009, at 10:14 AM, Jordan Mantha wrote:

Am I the only one that was totally confused by “Input deck”?

Suggestions and/or patches are welcome. Wording is obviously easy to
revise now.

I still find some Avo UI to be less than intuitive.

Now would be a very good time for an interface critique. This goes for
everyone. I’d rather have a pile of suggestions and/or critiques to
prioritize, than to assume the program is doing well, but people
disagree.

So if there are parts of the interface which don’t work, write up an e-
mail and let everyone know. That’s the least you can do.

Cheers,
-Geoff

Hi,

Just to let you know that my initial comment was not
a criticism, but was meant to draw attention to some
questions a translator asks himself, trying to figure out
the best wordings to translate (rather interpret) sentences.
Context is important in this respect.

In this case, the obvious meaning is “Input file”.

And I have nothing against the history of computing!

Louis

Le 19 mai 09 à 16:21, Marcus D. Hanwell a écrit :

Input deck comes from the days where it really was a deck of punch
cards

  • it has history but may not be the best choice of name for a modern
    user interface :wink: